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drilling a barrel...
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  gipo

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Posted: October 10 2008 at 11:55am | IP Logged Quote gipo

hello,
i know itīs my first post an maybe itīs a dumbass question but here we go.

i want built a small .22lfb tube gun like this one:
http://home.comcast.net/~stevethone/boltpistoldesign.html

i have a good milling maschine and lathe at work.
my experience in drilling,milling and work with the lathe are good.

my question is now.
is it possible to lathe my own barrel with a good maschine ore is it to dangeres to use a selfmade barrel.
itīs only a barrel for .22lfb

which steel is interesting for me?normal steel or stainles steel?

Thanks for your help...

P.S. sorry for my english
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  hawcer

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Posted: October 10 2008 at 12:08pm | IP Logged Quote hawcer

I suggest using a .22lr barrel blank.With the lathe that you have available to use,you can thread and shape it to your liking.

I think most barrels are forged and rifled in the same process.Unless you go with a barrel liner "insert" after you machine your own barrel blank,I don't know how you will be able to have it rifled.

 

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  gipo

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Posted: October 10 2008 at 12:21pm | IP Logged Quote gipo

the problem with the .22lr barrel blank is,that i canīt buy one here in germany.
i canīt go to the next shop like you.;)

the barrel liner is maybe a good idee,but i think the barrel are not drilled with the barrel liner. they are pulled.

did the barrel have to be rifled?

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  tr6guns

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Posted: October 10 2008 at 12:56pm | IP Logged Quote tr6guns

Here are the instructions for installing a barrel liner   http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/General/DisplayPDF.aspx?f=I nst-143+Barrel+Liner.pdf 
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  gundoctor

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Posted: October 10 2008 at 1:37pm | IP Logged Quote gundoctor

drilling a barrel is not a big problem in  a lathe.   I suggest using a gundrill a few thousand's undersize and then reaming to proper size.  You will need to rig up a way to get pressure coolant / lubricant to the tools as you drill/ream.

For a 22 rimfire even mild steel would be fine for a shopbuilt gun.

In the U.S., it would have to be rifled if less than 18" in length or it would be an illegal shotgun (smooth bore) or "zip gun" (many state laws against these).

Rifling is only necessary for accuracy--stabilizing the bullet so that you can hit something at yards instead of feet.

In the U.S., a rifled tube is not a barrel for import purposes--it is simply an interesting piece of steel.  It becomes a barrel only after chambering.  I wonder if you could buy an unchambered rifled blank legally in Germany since it is not a gun part yet?
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  gipo

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Posted: October 10 2008 at 2:03pm | IP Logged Quote gipo

thats good to hear for me so i can start to lathe a small barrel without rifles.
i will built my first single shot tube gun.

In germany itīs hard to buy some gun parts.
you canīt buy a barrel ore a rifled tube.
they know what you can do with this thing.
the most shop in the u.s. donīt export barrels ore rifled tubes to germany.

thanks for your tips

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  gundoctor

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Posted: October 10 2008 at 2:31pm | IP Logged Quote gundoctor

Make sure to know your laws as not many people on this forum could give you guidance on German law.

It has always been interested to me that in Germany (i think) you can buy the receiver but not the barrel for many fully automatic weapons.   We can have the barrel but not the receiver.  Should have married a German girl.
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  gipo

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Posted: October 10 2008 at 3:24pm | IP Logged Quote gipo

thats right, you canīt buy a barrel, firepin and loader without a gun licence.
the receiver isnīt the problem.
so maybe i need a girl too.she can ship some kits over the big pond.maybe an ak47 kit.


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  tommerr

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Posted: October 10 2008 at 8:33pm | IP Logged Quote tommerr

gipo,

I am trying to understand your laws. A ".22 barrel liner" cannot be used as a barrel without support. It is a thin tube which is rifled and it has no chamber. Is this thing still illegal for you?
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  gipo

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Posted: October 11 2008 at 6:54am | IP Logged Quote gipo

the problem is you can buy a barrel liner, but it seems to me that its illegal to use it.
the law says that you canīt buy barrel ore barrel blanks that can be use with  technical changes.if you can do this changes with normal tool,than itīs illegal for you. i ask you what are normal tools?tools that you can bye on a hardware store ore things like a lathe for industial production?i think a thin tube which is rifled is a thin tube with rifled nothing else.
so i think a rifled tube with no chamber is not illegal,but nobody canīt say it to me definitive.

iīm looking for some barrel blanks in germany but they cost over 100$.
some guys in this forum buy them vor 10$ on some u.s. shop.
but these shops donīt ship to germany.
so i should have married a u.s. girl.


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  UKBiker

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Posted: July 16 2013 at 10:16am | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

Why not look at using a high quality air rifle barrel, like a Theoben or similar, it should suffice for what you require. I recon if it was used as a liner with suitable material for the outer part it would be fine for .22TCM rounds. In the UK there are similar stringent laws ( although they aren't really laws merely statutes) it means anyone in the UK has to be particularly inventive and cautious.
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  UKBiker

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Posted: December 01 2014 at 6:20pm | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

As an add on to my last comment here, I have recently been doing some research into .22LR and .22 air rifle barrels.

Modern air rifle barrels are slightly smaller than .22LR at 5.5mm, however the older British air rifles such as BSA, Webley generally pre 1970 use a same diameter bore as the .22LR infact you can buy specific pellets for these which are larger than modern pellets.
The rifling twist on the older British air rifle barrels is also 1 in 16 the same as a .22LR.
There is some evidence to suggest that manufacturers like BSA simply used unproofed .22LR barrels on their air rifles, which would make perfect sense for them to do so, as it would simplify manufacture producing a single pattern barrel blank to then be profiled for whatever type they wanted.
I would imagine that an early pre 1970 air rifle barrel would require an additional sleeve pressing on around the chamber end as they tend to be a little thinner in that area than .22LR barrels.

But it does make it easier for those members in less simpathetic regions who are having difficulty finding .22LR barrels for use on projects. I am endeavouring to research the early pre 1970 .177 calibre and .25 calibre old British air rifle barrels to see if these are the same idea as the .22 barrels.

But make sure that it is from a pre 1970 British air rifle like a BSA or Webley and if you're in any doubt as to the bore diameter then slug it and measure it to be certain of what you're dealing with.
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  OldCoot

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Posted: December 07 2014 at 2:50pm | IP Logged Quote OldCoot

gipo wrote:
....iīm looking for some barrel blanks in germany but they cost over 100$.
some guys in this forum buy them vor 10$ on some u.s. shop.
but these shops donīt ship to germany.
so i should have married a u.s. girl.




gipo, the $100 dollar barrel blank is cheaper, lot's cheaper than marrying the American girl.  Trust me on this one....
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  UKBiker

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Posted: December 07 2014 at 4:28pm | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

OldCoot wrote:

gipo wrote:
....iīm looking for some barrel blanks in germany but they cost over 100$.<br>some guys in this forum buy them vor 10$ on some u.s. shop.<br>but these shops donīt ship to germany.<br>so i should have married a u.s. girl.<br><br><br>

<br><br>gipo, the $100 dollar barrel blank is cheaper, lot's cheaper than marrying the American girl.  Trust me on this one....<br><div style="display: none; visibility: ; opacity: 0;" id="lb"><div style="display: none;" id="lbCenter"><div id="lbImage">id="lbNextLink"><div style="display: none;" id="lbBottomContainer"><div id="lbBottom"><div id="lbCaption"><div id="lbNumber"><div style="clear: both;">



Hahaha do I detect the bitter chill of experience there Coot? I think the US space program was probably cheaper than marrying some American girls
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  angus.macgyver

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Posted: January 09 2015 at 5:25am | IP Logged Quote angus.macgyver

Hi,

newbie here.
I want build a single shooter. Fist a derringer, later a little bigger. Pack-rifle, etc (for a .22LR).

As Gipo, I can't buy here legal gun parts (barrel, ammo, etc). I think this is not a big problem. For a short barrels (example: derringer) I bore the barrel, without rifling. For this parts (for .22LR) is a good material the "stainless steel 416"? Or what other materials can I using?
I have other idea: red hilti cartridges with lead BB-s. This cartridges have more power.

For the pack rifle I can maybe using 5.5mm airgun barrel. The chinese guns is realy cheap. The barrels looks good, good rifling, outter diameter 15.0mm - but the material? I think simple mild steel. The chamber turning or reaming to a .22LR size.
This wall thickness (4.75mm) enough for .22LR?

Comparsion:
.22 hyper velocity hollow point load = 0.143gramm
.270 red hilti load (short) = 190gramm
.270 red hilti load (long, older version) = 310gramm

What thickness recommend for this loads and what material?
Thank You!
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  UKBiker

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Posted: January 09 2015 at 2:33pm | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

You could always shrink another tube over the chamber end of the barrel to increase the diameter, or press a piece of tube onto it and then silver solder it.
You would be better off looking for an old pre 1970 british air rifle barrel BSA Milbro Webley etc as these are .22LR compatible with a 1 in 16 twist rate, whereas modern air rifle barrels are slightly smaller at 5.5mm, in a short barrel it shouldn't make too much difference but in a long barrel you may have an increase in pressure due to the tighter bore creating more resistance as the projectile is forced along its length.

I don't know what the laws are in Hungary but I would advise finding out exactly how the law applies to you and then following it to the letter, rather than opening yourself up to being prosecuted.
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  angus.macgyver

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Posted: January 09 2015 at 3:21pm | IP Logged Quote angus.macgyver

UKBiker wrote:
...


BSA, or real .22 cal barrels can't buy here legal.
What materials using? Example: the 416 must using heat treatment?
I just thinking.
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Posted: January 10 2015 at 1:35am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

If you use 416 Stainless steel for a .22LR, as long as it's walls are thick enough, you could get away with out heat treating it.

IF I recall on the Derringer the barrel walls are quite thick anyway, so no problem there.

As per, your other later projects, it depends upon how the barrel is rifled, button, single point cut, etc...
As to whether or not heat treatment is required.
If it's button rifled, it MUST be heat treated in order to relieve stresses.
Cut rifling for a .22LR you could get away without hardening the barrel.

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  UKBiker

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Posted: January 10 2015 at 5:58am | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

angus.macgyver wrote:
UKBiker wrote:
...


BSA, or real .22 cal barrels can't buy here legal.
What materials using? Example: the 416 must using heat treatment?
I just thinking.


BSA .22 air rifle barrels ideally older than 1970 or Webley air rifle barrels, or Milbro air rifle barrels, all pre 1970, you can fit a .22LR through one of those without a problem once you chamber it.

For shorter barrels you might be able to use a good quality modern air rifle barrel but they are 5.5mm not .22

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