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  backbencher

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Posted: August 03 2018 at 2:34pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Don't have to use batteries - could use an on-board shake generator that charges a capacitor like the shake flashlights - or a Seebeck generator.

Like the electrodes - that could prevent chambering rounds following a squib.  Also gives muzzle velocity average to adjust the optical sight.

I don't expect it would be very difficult to convert a HiPoint to 9x18mm, pretty easy to bolt a rail on those.
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  justin22885

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Posted: August 03 2018 at 2:57pm | IP Logged Quote justin22885

no point in converting a hi point to 9x18, could just use a makarov i already have.. but a full size double stack with a rail could be cool.. all the features of a modern pistol with the simplicity of an unlocked action

anyway.. im not an electrical engineer so im not sure hat the energy requirements would be for such a switch and what would be needed to actuate it.. though i was thinking about coil guns, gauss guns, rail guns.. etc which use electrical energy to propel a steel projectile via electromagnetism.. i wonder if that could work in the reverse.. instead of using electricity to propel a bullet, generate electricity off the bullet
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  backbencher

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Posted: August 03 2018 at 3:51pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Everything works well until someone loads a different metal bullet in there.  You've got plenty of recoil and heat, just use that.

Did Beretta ever make their double stack .380 ACP in 9x18mm?  Wonder if there's an aftermarket bbl for it.  Don't think it has a rail, though.
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  justin22885

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Posted: August 03 2018 at 5:51pm | IP Logged Quote justin22885

nah, im not sure it could handle the higher pressures of 9x18 being an aluminum frame.. i knew they had problems with frames cracking just from 32acp on their smaller cat models

also.. if youre trying to get heat off the barrel its not going to work so well when the pistol is cold.. and using recoil is what pistols do now, you talked about adding electronics.. but i think the simplicity of a straight blowback can provide all one needs in such a caliber that its not really even worth considering other options

im actually surprised you dont see more blowback 9mms, theres been besides the hi point at least a few other examples of straight blowback 9s.. youre really not adding much weight to achieve it either
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  backbencher

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Posted: August 04 2018 at 8:14am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

HiPoint is one of the more successful examples; plenty of submachine gun derived pistols in 9x19mm.  Blowback is seen as cheap in a service pistol, and standard in a PCC, or AR-9 pistol.

I'd actually like to test a Jimenez, they don't have the following that HiPoint does, probably for good reason.
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Posted: August 04 2018 at 10:30am | IP Logged Quote justin22885

hi point does have an advantage over most other pistols in its caliber in reliability.. straight blowback is, always has been, and always will be the most reliable system, its the simplest system too, and the lowest cost to make.. now had they actually used solid, durable materials and had a disassembly that wasnt an absolute PITA, id consider one as a backup for shtf purposes given how reliable and hard to kill they are

but 9x18 in my opinion is more than sufficient for a defensive caliber.. it'll do 12-18" of penetration with .56" of expansion and leave some pretty significant wound cavities.. out of equal barrel lengths (and using the higher pressure of euro military ammo) the difference between it and 9x19mm is only about 30ft/lbs of energy

the only reason really to pursue a super reliable blowback pistol in 9mm would be because of the availability of the ammo.. in my opinion there is absolutely no other reason
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Posted: August 04 2018 at 10:32am | IP Logged Quote justin22885

aah, now i remember these JA-9s.. decent looking pistol with some nice features.. still made of pot metal though.. id pay extra just to have a frame and slide actually made of steel.. i wonder why you only see really low quality guns made that way when the actions themselves are in no way inferior to recoil operated
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  backbencher

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Posted: August 04 2018 at 5:10pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

B/c once you've committed to machining/casting steel, short recoil isn't that hard, and makes a more attractive, lighter, lower-recoiling pistol for the consumer.

The market is very hard to mislead, and wants what it wants.  It's wanted short-recoil pistols since the early 1900's, and only chooses straight blowback pistols in calibers above .380 when they're really cheap, like HiPoints and imported Makarovs.

From an engineering standpoint, blowback is always simpler; from a shooting standpoint, blowback is usually heavier than an equivalent short-recoil gun.  Given the user is mostly going to carry the thing on his hip, he wants the lighter pistol.
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Posted: August 11 2018 at 9:59pm | IP Logged Quote justin22885

sure, for 9mm above, 9x18 and below, straight blowback is perfectly fine.. im comfortable with either caliber and have pistols in both.. my only problem is focusing on the cheapest, most expedient ways of doing things which adds considerably to the challenge factor

if you had a decent enough lathe to get the tolerances tight enough to do a gas seal, creating a gas plug to go into the slide and fit over the barrel you could gas delay a 9x19mm that was barely any larger or heavier than a small blowback .380
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  backbencher

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Posted: August 12 2018 at 12:47am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Well, that's the premise behind the HK P7 & Walther CCP.  The Germans & Austrians are rather fond of that system, but it hasn't been very popular elsewhere.

I think everyone looks @ expediency given the tools they have or they know.  I have a drill press and a milling vice, but I don't even know how to bolt them down properly.  I do, however, know how to get my wife to stand on a trigger jig, and I can use a hacksaw - thus, the Lyndon - not the cheapest, but the easiest route.

I look @ the AR market - and the Glock - and say, I can get bbls, uppers, and FCS through the mail - all I have to build is the lower.  And so I look @ ways of building lowers - welding, soldering, pouring, milling, 3-D printing, etc.  If I found myself in Nigeria, where I was limited to shotguns, I would have different interests and would seek to solve the problem via a different route.

I also keep an eye on the overall market.  What is cheap now is not what was cheap, and likely will not continue to be cheap in the future.  AKs were cheap, due to massive # of parts kits coming in; now, ARs are cheaper than AKs b/c Hillary lost the election and the manufacturers had prepared for a last hurrah.
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  justin22885

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Posted: August 12 2018 at 2:33am | IP Logged Quote justin22885

nothing wrong with the design, on merit alone both pistols were quite successful, the P7 had a long run but HKs usual excessive price tag probably killed it and steyr has always had problems importing things into the US.. i do like the steyr system better though because mechanically it is so much simpler and works the same way

i think there is so much you can do with a drill press and a milling vice, if you go slow enough that is.. and i wouldnt discount free-hand shaping parts with bench grinders, dremels, and hand files either if you have a good pattern to work with and youre careful about the tolerances.. in some ways it might be better to mill something out of a solid block using just these tools than it would be welding sheet metal


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