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Obama to remove all firearm data on net
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  tr6guns

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Posted: June 15 2015 at 6:38am | IP Logged Quote tr6guns

I'm kind of in the dark here, if as you claim this is about free speech then why are you so adamant about silencing others for their views and opinions'. And as you say this is not about the right or left but then you claim the left has done more than the right on freedoms. Personally I believe Free Speech for some is if they totally agree with you then its free and if you don't agree then its un-American. But that is just my opinion, maybe because I'm not gay, black or a Democrat...
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  backbencher

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Posted: June 15 2015 at 7:43am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Choscura wrote:
The left has been responsible for more gained freedoms than the right...


You're a funny man.  Tell us another one!
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  Sora-tobu chiru

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Posted: June 16 2015 at 2:18am | IP Logged Quote Sora-tobu chiru

Sagittarii wrote:
And you thought the ACLU was of no use they may not like you but will have to put in to keep their credibility up.


Wasn't Heston ACLU member at some point od his life?


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  Choscura

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Posted: June 16 2015 at 9:44am | IP Logged Quote Choscura

Tr6guns, disagreement is not censoring. If it looks like you're wrong, I'll say so- like saying the size or color of the meat between somebody's legs is a valid criteria for assessing the performance of a leader. That's not just wrong, it's stupid, and I'll say so, along with why- and how. But I won't tell anybody to stop saying it just because I disagree.

Backbencher, the implication isn't that one is better than the other, or that only one has ever contributed. But on social issues, it is ludicrous to paint the right as leaders when the standard term is literally the opposite- "Social conservatism".
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  backbencher

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Posted: June 16 2015 at 12:36pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Choscura, might want to go back and research the leadership on the 60's Civil Rights Acts, and how our current Welfare state came about - and who it penalizes.
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  molon labe

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Posted: June 16 2015 at 9:05pm | IP Logged Quote molon labe

The left creates the illusion of freedom for some.... while stripping all the fundamental rights from the masses. The real answer is Libertarianism.....
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  Choscura

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Posted: June 17 2015 at 5:25pm | IP Logged Quote Choscura

I refuse to take sides. I consider human rights and basic freedoms (like speech, thought, ownership of objects you can reasonably claim rights to own apart from your peers, determine your own destiny) inalienable, and regard governments as an occasionally feasible attempt at delivering and protecting these for limited groups of people to a limited extent some of the time- and so the whole idea is that we haven't finished building civilization yet, and we know roughly what we need to keep doing it tomorrow, we should be investing our resources to f**king well get there.

If this means gay marriage, legal drugs, and welfare, I have no problem with that, because that's just stuff we need to do, whether we like it or not- but we should never forget what we have it for. This isn't a left wing move out of charity, this is a f**king investment. This is money spent making sure our economy has the people in it who can contribute by getting as many people to thrive as possible. We have these things so all our citizens have the greatest chance of contributing to our economy, and thus to all of our nation, so that we can all actually enjoy the liberties we've given ourselves. It isn't about robbing the rich to feed the poor, it's about investing in the poor to make them rich (edit: by ensuring their basic needs are met in a way that allows them to become productive or profit from their own ingenuity) - or if not them, the next generation from them who learns from their parents mistakes. Governments, let us not forget, operate at timescales well beyond the scope of human life, so this is a good investment for a government to make, and one they can afford to get wrong fairly often, but not so wrong their nations cease to function or cause other nations to intervene.

And yet I don't think governments would continue to be feasible of some more efficient form of organization began eating their lunch. Apparently, the same thing has happened before, to religions as organizing institutions when secular governments began eating their lunch, and tribalism by religion before that. Corporations are certainly more efficient- and I wouldn't be the first to suggest that Google could run the entire US government, while continuing its normal operations, without needing to add much- if anything - to its' current capacity to operate.

See, hard right guys make me shake my head, because if gays can marry just because they want to (as long as they're reasonable adults - just like straight marriage!), you can make the argument for having all guns, just because you want them, on the condition you're a reasonable adult, and that their safe use is assured- no matter how 'unnatural' somebody else says it is. The second amendment, after all, says that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed; it doesn't say it shall be unaccounted for. It also explicitly allows for guns in the context of militias, which means that the guns need to be able to be called to service in time of war, and called to account in a time of peace- if we keep playing the game of having them for this, this seems to be one of the trades we're just going to have to make.

So, on the basis that gun control will inevitably fail- as will every other artificial limitation on technology- our only path forward is to find the best way for the people that want guns to have them in a way that doesn't f**k over the people that don't have them. The whole concept of the American experiment is just the first step towards trying to find a solution for this; what we have isn't perfect, but it allows for greater freedom than in other nations and we should be proud of that, and seek to expand these freedoms.

And we should oppose this move by Mr. Obama on that basis- and not because of his tan, or the size of his dick. The cost of criminalizing productive members otherwise in good standing in the republic he has been elected to lead is simply too high, when you consider that there is no benefit to be achieved. Guns are universally available, not because they are supplied by sinister people, but because they are a reproducable solution to a common problem- the threat of violence- that can be devised anywhere. We, here, should know this better than anybody. The emerging news stories we see, where the Luty submachine gun is suddenly being found commonly in places like Australia now by the police, should at least give us pause. We can make guns, and the bad guys can too. Even if we stop, they don't, and the damage has already been done.

So whatever our differences on other issues, I think all of us here can agree to oppose this together.
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  Sagittarii

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Posted: June 17 2015 at 10:20pm | IP Logged Quote Sagittarii

Australia 22 million people 7 million on welfare 11 million working after tax only 6.9 million pay.
Aboriginals very few full blood unlimited welfare I mean unlimited free education to university.
They do nothing because everything is free. Yet complain of hardship. Women I remember when the single mothers pension started to help the needy now its unlimited children free medical hospital assisted accommodation / travel and free Invitro fertilisation or sperm donors to support their choice. Free speech as long as you dont say anything they dont approve of and liberty the left believes they bestow Europe is even worse. Expect people to do nothing and get unlimited handouts you get bludgers who do nothing and expect everything. Quote “ Black man says I work 2 jobs a Nigger says I cant get a job. You are obviously very young and idealistic time will smarten you up if you have any common sense at all
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  Sagittarii

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Posted: June 18 2015 at 7:46am | IP Logged Quote Sagittarii

Choscura
Marriage is between a man and a woman for the purpose of raising a family. We have seen film in Australia of Elton John who puts on his best "Straight" for public consumption the film shows a totally demented over the top Queen who has been allowed to "Buy Children" to raise in his degenerate lifestyle.
Their Genetic disorder causes s**ual mania meaning they seek many partners their relationships are short lived meaning many will divorce if they want a Union recognized for property rights etc so be it. Marriage no. Transvestites like Lady GaGa yes she is one most around 80% are simply mentally ill like Bruce Jenner envious the sluts in the family get the attention and make the money. many are now recanting their status claiming they were never even given even basic screening.
As for drugs if you think people will stop at Grass now claimed to be even worse than Cigarettes for lung disease watch the documentary Americas Stoned Kids on youtube. Well talk in 20 years I guarantee you now you won't have the same foolish opinions
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  Choscura

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Posted: June 18 2015 at 5:35pm | IP Logged Quote Choscura

Sagittarii, your posts in this thread disprove the first quote in your signature; I sincerely hope the reason for this doesn't violate the principle described in the second.
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  backbencher

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Posted: June 18 2015 at 5:44pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Ok, guys, knock off the insults.  Sometimes we're our own worst enemy.
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  vintagemx0

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Posted: June 18 2015 at 8:32pm | IP Logged Quote vintagemx0

X2 on knocking off the insults. This thread has multiple emotional departures from its original and rather focused issue. Sorry, don't mean to be negative...

So, if photos and discussions of a personal project were displayed of a build, without detailed numerical specifications, would this still be illegal under the king's proposal?

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  Choscura

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Posted: June 19 2015 at 2:02am | IP Logged Quote Choscura

Hear hear. I say we resist this. We, here, should make the case for this, if we are able. We are <mostly> reasonable people, operating independently to achieve goals for our own personal satisfaction- the same as everybody else. Our hobby does not lend itself to utility by criminals, because it is easier to steal a gun than make one, and it is easier to make a junk gun- the most extreme end of which is something like a Luty- than do the kinds of builds we're doing here. Since this is a measure made to curb things like the Luty by treating our stuff like that, we have an actual legal case to present even if this law goes into effect.

Now I'm not sure what the legality of our builds or posts here will be if this law goes into effect; but I think we need a backup system in place that lets us preserve this data. We've got to be like f**king monks hiding the books from the barbarian hordes so they don't eat them. Can somebody take a snapshot of the whole website, forums and all, and make that available for download, or even maybe the mods here could put it up for sale? Might cover costs a bit better than just donations around here too, come to that.

Based on my quick skim of the law, it looks like we can't put up blueprints or anything instructional, and any evidence of our builds might be regarded as instructional- because, frankly, it is- and we might be able to get away with something that was explicitly non-weapon (like, say, paintball or airsoft). Possibly, we can get away with things that are related to firearms, but are not actual weapons- like my rifling machine pictures- but this may become illegal shortly too. Can anybody corroborate this?
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  OldCoot

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Posted: June 21 2015 at 12:11pm | IP Logged Quote OldCoot

Choscura wrote:
The left has been responsible for more gained freedoms than the right, and this falls under that category as well; if you want this freedom, as I think everyone here does, you must help make the case for it to them so that they not only understand that it is reasonable and enjoyable, but that it is unstoppable. Technology never goes backwards.

This is a freedom of speech issue, and not a left vs right issue- so please don't go around making enemies for this endeavor by casting it as one.


Luddite Left is a thought control issue. That's what's being played on the Internet by the power brokers. It's a term used among some of us who have been dealing with the body politic and where to bury the dead and rotting parts like buggy whip regulation for the last couple decades or so.

Law, like canned foods, should come with an expiration date.
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  Sarge

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Posted: November 17 2016 at 3:04pm | IP Logged Quote Sarge

Well, it's been about a year and a half = 18 months, since the last post here and as best I can tell the sky has still not fallen! 
Wonder why that is?  Maby because some on here have just been rumor mongering? 
Sure seems to be the case to me.  I have read thru all of the mostly drivel here and see little of substance! 
Sarge 
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