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Gun Control Myths, interesting read
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 26 2014 at 7:51am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

I found this whilst looking for something else.

Quite an interesting read, stating some facts that are conveniently left out of the Gun Control fanatics.

http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/guns-in-other-cou ntries/
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 27 2014 at 2:02am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

I find it rather interesting how the statistics show no direct link between violent crime and gun control.

For example, US has quite lax laws, but the UK has very strict laws, but Scotland is deemed the most violent place in the developed world, outstripping the US.

Also the way gun crime is reported, the US all crimes where a gun is involved is recorded. But in the UK, only those that get a successful prosecution are recorded.
Not to mention how the UK police fiddle the fingers in order to make them look good, when in fact the reality is very much different.

At the end of the Day, in places like the UK, gun control has not reduced gun crime, in fact it doubled after the UK handgun ban. The laws do not take into account criminal do not walk in to the local gun shop and fill out the necessary paperwork to own a gun.
If they want one they WILL get one.

Bottom line gun control DOES NOT WORK.
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  OldCoot

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Posted: July 27 2014 at 12:34pm | IP Logged Quote OldCoot

Only thing gun grabs do is make enforcement safer for the freedom thieves.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 27 2014 at 3:20pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

It's not just the Freedom thieves, who feel safer.

The criminals love it, as they know full well they will not get shot.

The UK is a prime example of how gun control has zero affect on crime figures.
The only reason the UK has a lower gun crime rate than the US is they only record the solved crimes that result in a conviction. if they don't get anyone the don't record it as a gun crime.

Statistics is the only place in mathematics where 2+2= what ever you want it to equal. The British government know this all to well, as does the Demotwats in the US.

My favourite is the "The United States has the highest violence rate because of lax gun control" the fact is the top ten countries with the highest gun crime all have either total bans or near total bans on firearms.

The US is more violent than Scotland, clearly those who think that have never been to Scotland, I gave up going out for a drink after I lived in Scotland.
I simply could not sit down and have quiet drink without some arsehole wanting to pick a fight.

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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 27 2014 at 3:39pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

I found the data set for gun crime country by country.

64FEE_gun_crime_table.pdf

Oddly enough the country with the highest level of homicide by firearm is Lichtenstein, but that's because apparently they've only had 1 murder last year and that was by a gun. So they have a homicide by gun rate of 100%.

Statistics is just complete bollocks

No wonder politicians love it.
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  OldCoot

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Posted: July 27 2014 at 5:57pm | IP Logged Quote OldCoot

Honest statistics will give you mean time before failure - a stat greatly to be valued by parachutists and others who risk their rancid butts on machinery.

Dishonest statistics and lying news medai give you Obama, Pelosi and Reid.

And you don't want to start me off about advertising.
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  UKBiker

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Posted: July 28 2014 at 2:00am | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

Interesting read North, It does somewhat blow the argument about gun control out of the water especially in the UK.
Scotland is an interesting study they have more restrictive laws than the rest of the UK, even air rifles/pistols are very heavily regulated, yet their crime rate is much worse compared to the rest of Britain.

Coot I agree when you look at advertising you can pretty much gauge the level of society from the adverts they are subjected to, we used to have something here called the trades descriptions act, which prevented wild claims about products or services being made by advertisers, I don't know what happened but the adverts I see especially for hair care products and similar making all manner of claims of pro vitamin blah blah blah bullsh*t and how 90% of people thought this one was best although the sample size of only 120 people is somehow representative of wider society.

Advertisers these days are nothing more than sophisticated Snake Oil salesmen working on a gullible population.
Politicians would be the snakes that the oil is supplied by!!!!!
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 28 2014 at 3:21am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Statistics is a very important engineering mathematical tool, Mean Time Between Failure, is in everything.

Another interesting, Gun control country is Japan, almost complete ban on all firearms, but the real stats show this has no effect upon the crime rate.

Japans organised crime syndicate the Yakuza, actually prefer the Katana over the gun.
Guns in Japan have been used more for suicide than for robbing a bank or murder.

The thing about Japan is more about people control than gun control, Japan controls it's people more than any other developed country, something I think many will find disturbing at the very least.
The idea of a peoples liberty being controlled to that level, is just wrong.
But Japan is one of the few countries it works in, they've never really had freedom, so they don't know any different.

The UK & the US, both have enjoyed freedom for a very long time, and it's part and parcel of being a British or American, gun control is just another part of total control.
Control you thoughts, control your shopping list, control your drive to work, control your access to information.

If you have a constitutional right to bear arms, it is illegal for the Government to take that away from you.
The UK has a right to bear arms, but the government has made great efforts to ensure the population is completely unaware of that fact.
But that also prevents the government from implementing a total ban, as they know some people in the UK are not as stupid as the government would like them to be.

Governments by their very nature demand compliance, complete obedience, when they don't get it they twist and manipulate whet ever they can get away with in order to achieve the end result they so desperately crave.

Politicians are like crack addicts, once they've experienced power of office they've just got to have more and more.
Many start with good intentions, but the road to Hell is paved in good intentions.
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  MatthewMachinist

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Posted: July 30 2014 at 1:10am | IP Logged Quote MatthewMachinist

I agree that statistics can be used to prove anything and are of limited value, what surprises me most about the anti gun lobby is there persistence in using statistics that have been refuted.

For me the gun debate is a purely ethical one, any time a state imposes any form of gun control, it is punishing the innocent for the actions of the guilty. This fact alone proves gun control is totally unjust. Even if country X does have soaring violent crime and XX% is being done with firearms it still does not remove ones right to posses effective means of self defence.

We could argue that we don't need self defence because we have the police, well, the day the police can arrive faster than the speed of sound I might agree that that is relevant.

We could argue that if we make guns freely available that we will be responsible for any misuses. By this logic a car dealer is responsible when someone commits a hit and run? The user is responsible for their own actions, responsible users and dealers are not responsible for misuses.

What is undeniable is that when any gun control comes into effect, it reduces ones ability to defend oneself, I would argue that the lawmakers who do are therefore responsible when anyone so disarmed comes to harm.

One could say that the above two statements contradict each other, but they do not, anyone who wants to kill can easily do so with or without a firearm, one only needs to look at how many murders are committed with other weapons to know the truth of this, so gun control does not reduce the killing capability of the average bad guy, it enhances it by disarming his victim.

On the other hand gun control does directly reduce the chances that the average person has to defend themselves, a women attacked in a dark alley with a gun has a good chance of beating her attacker, a women so attacked armed only with her fists has a chance in hell, simply because most attackers are physically stronger than their victims.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 30 2014 at 10:02am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

MatthewMachinist, you've made valid points which have made time and time again.

I think everyone here would agree whole heartedly with what you've said.

Your point regards car dealers, manufacturers & owners is a valid point, but we don't need gun nor use guns to the same extent as vehicles, so the anti-gun lobby will claim it's not even a relevant comparison.

However, it does indeed highlight the point of WHO is responsible for an act.

For example. the Tobacco companies, record payouts have been made because a direct link has been made in court between the deaths of cancer victims and tobacco.
But hold on a moment, who inhaled the tobacco smoke in the first place?
Whilst the tobacco companies are guilty of covering up the damaging effects of smoking, they did not light the cigarette nor did they push it in to the mouth of the smoker.
So are they really responsible for the deaths?

I'm being devils advocate here, I am an ex smoker, and gave up 15 years ago.
I would never in anyway belittle the damage done to the families who have lost loved ones to smoking related illnesses.
I'm using tobacco as an example as just like gun control it's an ethical debate.

Cars, is the car manufacturers responsible for road deaths, yes if it a fault that can be traced back to the production line.
No, if it driver related, they are not responsible.

How about alcohol, are the drinks companies responsible for a drunk driver, liver damage caused by alcoholism.
No, they're not, the drinker is responsible.

Who is to blame for person getting into a car pissed out of their tree, and running over a kid riding their bike home from a friends house?

I'll bet your no body blames the car manufacturer for making the car. The dealer for selling the car. The bar for selling the alcohol, or the drinks company for making the drink.

No, it's the arsehole pissed out of their tree getting into their car knowing full well they should not be driving, who is at fault, and no one else.

it always seems to be lets see who we can pass the buck to, who can we blame for OUR mistakes, for OUR actions, for the choices WE make.

The Gun manufacturer, dealer, range etc is no more responsible for the actions of others as the car or drinks companies.

The individual person holding the gun, aiming it and pulling the trigger is responsible for the act and no other.

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  OldCoot

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Posted: August 03 2014 at 1:51pm | IP Logged Quote OldCoot

Guns empower those who are physically unable to defend themselves with the cudgel, dirk or saber.  Those who are after disarmament are attempting to turn the old, the weak, the female, into victims.  That's the long and short of it.

Under the Constitution, a government that wishes to turn me into a victim is one I have no obligation, under the 10th Amendment, to obey.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: August 03 2014 at 4:00pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

OldCoot wrote:
Guns empower those who are physically unable to defend themselves with the cudgel, dirk or saber.


I knew there was a good reason to spend thirty odd years practicing Iaido & Aikijutsu

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  NRADon

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Posted: August 04 2014 at 11:27am | IP Logged Quote NRADon

As Archie Bunker once said to Mike Stivak, "Don't you know the First Amendment guarantees that baby the right to own a machinegun?" When Mike corrected him by saying it was the Second Amendment and that the First protected freedom of speech, Archie replied, "Same difference, you got a gun in your hand, you're free to make any speech you want!"

That's really all the gun control issue has ever come down to, will you have the means to defend and fight for your lives or rights, or won't you? Crime control is irrelevant and only serves as the vehicle to sell the idea to people who can't/don't think. They couldn't get very far with the people if they told us they want to take away our freedom, rights, dignity, and safety now, could they?
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  northumbrian

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Posted: August 04 2014 at 11:36am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

What gets me is, the criminals can get pretty much any gun they want, no paperwork, no license, no checks, nothing not a thing to stop them from arming themselves.

But what do the law abiding people have to do, jump though hoop after to hoop, just to protect themselves from criminals who rely upon the government to make their lives easier.

No guns in the house, easy target to rob.

Gun control only serves to make it easier for criminals/politicians to operate.
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  UKBiker

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Posted: August 04 2014 at 2:39pm | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

Gun control is about people control, it has nothing whatsoever with reducing crime.
When the law changed in the UK banning semi auto centrefire and banning handguns with barrels shorter than 12" gun crime rose by over 40% in the following few years.
We have some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the world here in the UK, but if I had a mind to I could visit one of several dodgy pubs/bars and providing I had the cash to pay for it I could easily walk away with almost anything I wanted, there are all manner of handguns and even full auto AK47 available for the right amount of cash.
Criminals in the UK have a much easier access to a much wider range of firearms now than they ever did prior to the change in the law.
Traditionally sawn off shotguns and WWII relic handguns were the usual method of arming criminals.
Legally owned firearms were seldom used in criminal offences, but since the fall of the Berlin wall and open EU borders all manner of firearms have been smuggled into the UK by criminals for the use of other criminals.
There is evidence to suggest that AK47s have been brought into the UK in serious numbers and many immigrants from the former combloc states have been bringing them into the country through our very lax borders.
It is not an unlikely assumption that these weapons have made it into the hands of various muslim cells.
The indigenous law abiding population have been systematically disarmed and left without any reasonable means of defence.

Phillip Luty was all too aware of this and made it his lifes mission to give people the means of readily manufacturing defensive firearms from easily sourced materials.
The arsewipes in government were not overly keen on Phils idea of philanthropic gestures, and persecuted him for the rest of his life. Whilst letting criminals arm themselves to the teeth with almost total impunity.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: August 04 2014 at 3:58pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

A law only works if you give a 5h1t about the law.

My wife works with horses, and she has a very handsome Stallion, he has tremendous power, but my wife has pretty much complete control over him.

It is complete bollocks that she has control over him, but HE believes she does, it's conditioned helplessness.

He believes he can't live without my wife caring for him.

Governments like to think they have that control, it is after all what all power hungry parasites crave. But in reality they don't, they can BS the sheep, but the wolves & sheepdogs are far too canny for that crap.

The governments in France & the UK believe by taking away a persons passport they can protect the country from those whom have traveled to Syria and Iraq to fight with ISIS.
Complete and total bollocks, anyone can get into Europe and the UK without a passport, most of the time they just walk across the border, or hang off a lorry on a ferry.
Cash strapped fishing boats will bring anything you want into the UK, the old smugglers coves and drop offs are very much in use again, as the Coast Guard & Customs have been declawed. The entire coast line is open to all.

The 5h1t is going to hit the fan, and there is sod all the governments can do about it.
but the last thing they want is for the people not to need them, they want us to be helpless.

if the government wants me to be helpless they'd better chop my f**king arms and legs off, and even then I'll bite their f**king bollocks off
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  UKBiker

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Posted: August 04 2014 at 4:59pm | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

There is a civil war coming in the UK, the government have done nothing to prevent it and everything to ferment the growing anger towards certain sections of the immigrant communities.
The British are traditionally slow to anger, but when the switch eventually clicks from the slighty peeved position, to the rather annoyed position, it is only a simple further click to the lets go to war and kill every mother f**king one of the bastards position.

It will not take much to light the fuse, those who seek to impose their warped ideals over us represent only 3% of the total population, if you remove those too young to fight and those too old, it still means they are outnumbered by around 40 or so, to 1.

It won't be pretty and it will very likely ignite across Europe, into a them and us war.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: August 05 2014 at 2:09am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Whilst the governments will impose even stricter controls upon the law abiding citizens, in a feeble attempt to control the violence.
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It was called Schindler's List
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Posted: August 07 2014 at 5:40pm | IP Logged Quote NRADon

Once the people became apathetic to the fate of the empire, Rome's corrupt politicians couldn't save themselves or take more from a financially strapped populace. All governments tend to collapse from within over time through corruption and irresponsible spending. It appears that America, along with most of her allies, is now on the fast track.
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Oh, FFS.  We have survived incompetent presidents in the history of the Republic, and will do so again.  Name one other country in the history of the world that invaded a landlocked country on the other side of the planet without driving troops through a neighboring country.  Go on...
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