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Mosin nagant 91/30 pistol reweld question
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  kalash

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Posted: May 26 2013 at 11:33pm | IP Logged Quote kalash


I've got a 91/30 that I'm wanting to make a rewelded obrez pistol. Right now I have 4 torch cuts two on each side of the reciever with the reciever in 4 seperate parts.

I want to do a project similar to this one where I wont have to SBR it. I'm assuming that its 100% legal to demill a nagant via 4 torch cuts (two on each side rail) and using that scrap to make a pistol reciever.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=518164

Can anybody point me to the current ATF demill specifications and any tech branch letters that deal with rewelds.

I'm afraid I'll get hassled by a leo who does not know the laws, I'd like to have something to show that rewelding a demilled rifle in to a pistol is legal.

 

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  backbencher

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Posted: May 27 2013 at 8:46am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Looks like the fella in the thread you cite used TWO Mosin receivers, cut in different places, to reweld into a single new "other" receiver which he built into a legal pistol.  That would seem the safer bet, as he can demonstrate from the remaining scrap that neither of the previous rifle receivers exist, and that the pistol receiver is a new made receiver.

If you're starting from a single receiver, you've cut it, then rewelded it, adding new material, but the serial # is the same, and there's a record of it being imported as a rifle.  It's up to you to prove to a jury then that you demilled it sufficiently to make it cease to exist as a firearm, & then recreated the scrap into an "other" receiver.

My suggestion would be to get a 2nd stripped receiver (cheap!), cut it in different places than you cut the one you have now, & then reweld the two sets of parts into a new "other" receiver - and maintain the scrap of the previous rifle receivers.  It wouldn't hurt to write to the Firearms Technology Branch & get your own personal letter.
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  garthok

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Posted: May 27 2013 at 2:07pm | IP Logged Quote garthok

Better option, buy a barrel with receiver stub attached and use it as your front half. cost $20+ship.
https://www.buymilsurp.com/barrel-dark-bores-russian-m9130-m osin-nagant-rifle-p-87.html

Im building an obrez on another forum (bought the parts from a member there) Started with the front stub and a piece of tube. I don't have a mosin I am willing to cut apart, so fabricating the entire back half is worth the work and has the added bonus of never having been a receiver before.

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  Mandrex54

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Posted: May 06 2015 at 4:36pm | IP Logged Quote Mandrex54

kalash, hi.
Just a couple of questions: how did the build go, and why not SBR it for $200.00? I'm about io to cut a 1942 for my Obrez mod.

Mandrex54
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  backbencher

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Posted: May 07 2015 at 11:46pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

When you can buy another Mosin receiver for less than $200, there are some legal advantages in torching two Mosin receivers to make a single pistol.

OP, I'd get you another receiver, rather than reweld what you have.  They're cheap enough.  Then mix & match parts from the two receivers.
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  Chuckles

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Posted: May 12 2015 at 9:49pm | IP Logged Quote Chuckles

Must it be torched?
Those barrels from buymilsurp have about half of the receiver(atleast the one I have does) but was saw cut.
Can a person take 2 saw cut receivers and make one?
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  backbencher

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Posted: May 12 2015 at 10:04pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

BATFE's current standards are 2 torch cuts.  When the penalty for screwing up is 10 years in prison & a $10K fine, another receiver or a tax stamp seems pretty cheap.
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  Holescreek

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Posted: May 13 2015 at 12:26am | IP Logged Quote Holescreek

backbencher wrote:
BATFE's current standards are 2 torch cuts.  When the penalty for screwing up is 10 years in prison & a $10K fine, another receiver or a tax stamp seems pretty cheap.


The torch cuts are required for all NEW imports. It has no effect on receivers already imported into the country under previous standards.
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  backbencher

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Posted: May 13 2015 at 1:08am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Good to know.  How does that apply to destroying rifle receivers in your own house, and building new pistol receivers out of them?
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  molon labe

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Posted: May 13 2015 at 6:08am | IP Logged Quote molon labe

No matter what u do to destroy it, it doesnt count whithout an ATF agent present to verify it. Further more..... im pretty sure they require it be done by a licensed importer kr manufacturer..... with an agent present.
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  Chuckles

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Posted: May 13 2015 at 9:47am | IP Logged Quote Chuckles

There have been a few different Obrez builds, I don't recal them ever saying anything about having someone there to verify?
Nothing about them getting in any sort of troubles either?
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  backbencher

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Posted: May 13 2015 at 9:01pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

From what I know of Obrez builds, all from the interwebz:

Take two Mosin receivers.  Chop one, via torch, into two short ends & one long middle.  Take the other, chop, via torch, into two long ends & one short middle.

Now, grind off as much as necessary off the long parts, and then reweld.  Keep the short pieces as proof of the torch cuts.

I doubt they made that procedure up out of thin air, but from what BATFE incantation it was derived, I know not.

I grant that using a bbl stub sounds like an attractive shortcut, but one of the points of cutting the two receivers up that way is to preserve the locking lugs, which may not be present in a bbl stub.  The other point is that BATFE now requires torch cuts to demil receivers; your bbl stub was likely saw cut.  Mosin receivers are not that expensive.  I'd stick to the existing plan, or pay the $200.
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  garthok

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Posted: May 13 2015 at 9:16pm | IP Logged Quote garthok

The cool part about using a front half from buymilsurp is that they were destroyed to a specification approved by the ATF for that vendor. the locking lugs are in the front of a mosins receiver and completely untouched. Furthermore the serial number on the destroyed front half is recorded as being destroyed when they were cut.

The requirement for torch cuts is fairly specific to non-sporting (machine gun) firearms being imported to the US. Do not take my word for it search the atf site.
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  molon labe

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Posted: May 14 2015 at 10:15am | IP Logged Quote molon labe

Your point on the saw cut bbl stub from buymilsurp is spot on.... that u stated the serial number of that stub is recorded by ATF as destroyed. Thats really the only way to do a True Demil.... is to have it verified and recorded by ATF. I would go the route of using the barrel stub and retaining the serial number on it. Just xxxx it out if it wasnt already done. And restamp your own markings elsewhere stating "pistol" somehere in thd txt.
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Posted: May 14 2015 at 10:37am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

garthok,

That does sound like it has some advantages.  Where is the info about buymilsurp documented?

https://www.buymilsurp.com/barrel-dark-bores-russian-m9130-m osin-nagant-rifle-p-87.html
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  Chuckles

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Posted: June 21 2015 at 9:09pm | IP Logged Quote Chuckles

So, does a reweld need to be 2 cuts?
Does a receiver need to be saw/torch cut? Could a cracked receiver count as destroyed?
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  molon labe

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Posted: June 22 2015 at 9:12am | IP Logged Quote molon labe

Yes, sort of, and no. HOWEVER, if u start witht he front stub (with serial #) of a firearm that was already an approved and documented demil by the ATF.... what u use to Reconstuct it doesnt matter. So u could start with the barrel stub receiver (documented demil) and simply saw cut the entire rear section off of your own and reweld. Just keep in mind your stub is still a legal receiver.
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  backbencher

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Posted: June 22 2015 at 10:54am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

molon labe wrote:
Yes, sort of, and no. HOWEVER, if u start witht he front stub (with serial #) of a firearm that was already an approved and documented demil by the ATF.... what u use to Reconstuct it doesnt matter. So u could start with the barrel stub receiver (documented demil) and simply saw cut the entire rear section off of your own and reweld. Just keep in mind your stub is still a legal RIFLE receiver.


That's the problem. The stub on the bbl, even if saw cut, if it was destroyed by existing standards, is no longer a firearm. If you use another Mosin receiver to repair it, the bbl stub isn't a rifle receiver, but the 2nd Mosin receiver IS. So you're still going to need two Mosin rifle receivers to cut up and reweld to produce a single pistol receiver.
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Posted: June 22 2015 at 7:27pm | IP Logged Quote Chuckles

Any idea of they cut the receivers in house, of if they order them ion from somewhere else? Maybe they could get some of the rear pieces.

At any rate, I found a receiver with the front cracked. In my mind I see no reason why the rest of it couldn't be used as the pressure is in the front.

Just need to be mindful of welding heat as not to compromise the integrity of the locking lug area.

Question on welding the pieces... I had thought of bolting the receiver pieces to the magwell piece, and inserting the bolt then tack weld it. Manipulate the bolt some to be sure movement isn't impaired.
Im sure could use a few other various clamps or vice to help keep the parts lined up strait.


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Posted: June 22 2015 at 10:23pm | IP Logged Quote molon labe

But you arent using the serialized stub that isnt documented as a demil for the build.... your using the demilled stub whos serial # is documented as destroyed. With a demilled serial number what you use to remil doesnt matter and will never be questioned.
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